Interview with Stephen Jones

Stephen Jones is undoubtedly one of the most prolific milliners today. He has collaborated with some of the biggest names in fashion including Dior, Vivienne Westwood, L'Wren Scott and Louis Vuitton. His work has been featured in an exhibition by the V & A - Hats: an Anthology by Stephen Jones - that has recently completed a 'world tour'.

Stephen talks to me about luxury:

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Stephen (SJ): For me, luxury can appear in many ways. It’s only sometimes that it’s an object. You could have a luxurious experience, like a luxurious meal. But, as people say, ‘beauty is in the eye of the beholder’, so is luxury in the eye of the beholder. In the early 21^st century people tend to think that it’s a crocodile handbag and it can be that, but normally it’s everything else. Luxury is a very convenient thing to hang something on. I think it sort of the level of affluence and sophistication in society. If you think in terms of post-war, for example, if you had a vacuum cleaner, that was a modern home improvement and that was considered the great luxury of the day, as part of for example a space-age kitchen. And that was sort of the whole idea of an American convenience. Whether it was a convenient fridge or a washing machine, the woman was normally there in front of her Kelvinator washing machine with a ball gown, long gloves and a tiara. So that was absolute luxury. That was convenience. And then came fashion, and suddenly, the new added value word was ‘fashionable’. And along with that was the idea of a fashionable food or a fashionable description. So for example at Marks and Spencer’s you would never have six cakes, you would have a medley of cakes or that kind of thing. 

Luxury nowadays is maybe more true luxury than it was, but it’s still just really a marketing tool. I think that people’s appreciation of luxury is so personal. For one person, luxury may be getting half an hour off work earlier. Within all the luxury brands, really the only one that comes from fashion is Dior. All the others came from saddlery, or leather goods, or whatever. That in fact is slightly a problem for Dior but also its saving, because they haven’t got a thousand different handbags to fall back on. The thing about Dior was novelty. The fact that you had it was just extraordinary luxury and a fantastic, wonderful thing, but you had to have a new one every season. Dior also invented that. But that’s not enough in today’s market. 

SB: How would you define luxury?

SJ: I think something which has had time. If we are talking about an object then time, design, and whatever has been spent on it to make it an evocation of the human condition. Probably aspiring to be making something beautiful and qualitative. Luxury is in the idea contained within the object. I think it is completely about the experience. For example Dior haute couture, the fitters will go and see the client at home; even if it's only on the other side of the road. There will be the directrice of haute couture; the fitter, there may be a sowing lady as well. So it's completely about the experience for the client. The whole thing is about how you want to look, what flatters you, the message you want to send. Couture is just the same experience as they have within Savile Row, of having a bespoke suit made.

SB: Does the experience differ from that of Bond Street for example?

SJ: Well, the experience in Bond Street can be absolutely fantastic as well, like going to a jeweller, or going to a designer boutique; you will really be looked after. However, that product will not be changed for you, whereas luxury is having the thing adapted to your needs really, or to your wishes, to your taste.

SB: If you are buying haute couture, do you meet the designer, for example, and is that important?

SJ: If you are buying Dior haute couture, it depends who you are. You might meet the designer, absolutely, and certainly the designer will be doing the sketches and supervising it, but whether he can actually be there and be particularly hands on is another question... most designers don’t see the clients, and never have done, because actually within the couture houses, the vendeuse, the sales lady, is the one who really rules in that situation and they will have their own clients, and they will have commission from sales from their clients as well.

SB: Do you think it's important to have contact with the maker if you are buying into this idea of luxury rather than a luxury brand?

Vapour Trails

SJ: Oh yes, absolutely. Whether it's having a Porsche done for you in the colour that you want. Normally when we buy a product, the product exists and if we like it we buy it, and if we don’t like it, we don’t buy it. Actually, often even if we don’t like it we still do buy it because it's convenient. But the thing about true luxury therefore, and slightly in conclusion, is that it's halfway your thing and its halfway the person making it for you. And the interesting point is how far you go and how far they go. So it is a creative process, but with somebody in mind. And that exists in all levels. For example if a woman goes to a hairdresser she has got something that is done specifically for her. That’s why people will spend a fortune going to a hairdresser and give a giant tip, because it is that personal service.

SB: Is luxury about re-invention?

SJ: It can be. If you look at a lot of those luxury brands, what they do is they use their heritage. All of them, in particular people like Gucci. They will use their archives. I think every designer does. It's so funny, because you think that during the early sixties every designer or whatever was trying to do something space-age. Now they are desperately trying to look into their archives. They are incredibly proud of that. Burberry has existed since 1856; Dior has existed since 1947. The history of the company is more important than the newness of the object.

SB: What about the celebrity and luxury?

SJ: Interestingly here, for those people who are buying real luxury objects, if a celebrity is wearing it, they don’t want to have it. Often what they are about is discretion not celebrity. It's a private luxury, something to enjoy at home with your family or with your friends. I know some very wealthy people and they go out of their way to make sure that they are not photographed.

SB: What role has history played in that luxury is understood today?

SJ: Well, the ingredients in luxury; there’s craftsmanship, and there is authenticity, and so this whole idea that this thing has been passed down from father to son, and because of that it's a good thing. It's a connection to a time which was maybe slower or more time was spent in the creation of a beautiful object. If you look at companies like Burberry or Brioni, particularly menswear of course, and the Savile Row book, The Perfect Gentleman: The Pursuit of Timeless Elegance & Style in London, by James Sherwood, it is about their history. Today luxury is not about the fact that they are going to make an outfit for the man on the moon, but it's all about ‘heritage brands’, which is a particularly British thing and of course related to history.

SB: What does authenticity mean then, within the context of luxury?

SJ: It means that, within a luxury product, authenticity means that it's made using a traditional technique, which is perceived as being high class, and having soul within it.

SB: Do you think celebrity has a role to play in defining luxury?

SJ: : Yes because if Daphne Guinness is walking around with her new Dior handbag there are a whole lot of people out there who will go and buy it because they think she is a tastemaker. They will go and buy what she has. It is very similar now as it always has been. If you look at printed archives from the 1920s or the 1930s, it's always the Marchioness of Cholmondeley wearing a Vionnet ball gown, or it will say something like ‘She will always go to the White House in Piccadilly to buy her fine bed linens.’

SB: What about celebrity endorsement?

SJ: Celebrities are paid for celebrity endorsement; they have been here for a very long time. I think, what happened is that in the last century there was this sense of decorum about it, which happened probably in the fifties, sixties and seventies, but that all got blown away by the revolution in media in the eighties really, when suddenly you knew that Raquel Welch advertised Timotei Shampoo. She was getting paid for it, whereas before when the Marchioness of Cholmondeley was saying how divine Simpson’s was, it wasn't a hard sell. And then suddenly, of course now we know that everything is paid for.

SB:  Any funny stories you may wish to share?

SJ: There was a wonderful story about Mr. John who was a famous milliner in New York in the early sixties. He draped a turban on a famous client. It was like a scarf and he draped it all up and he fastened it with a big pin; a big brooch on the front. He handed the client a bill, and it was $100, and this was in 1963 or something; $100 was a fortune at that time. And the client said ‘ I am not paying that,’ and made a real stink, and there were other clients there, and they were all listening. He was really embarrassed, and he just undid and he said ‘Madam, the fabric is for free, You make it!’

I Was A Rich Mans Plaything